I am sorry to announce that due to the economy we will not be able to provide raises, career development or help with the ever increasing health care costs. This is in no way shape or form due to mis appropriations of funds, wasteful spending, over inflated administrative salaries, top heavy administration or gross negligence in regards to the budget. Please work at being better and help find ways to save money by turning off lights when you leave the room.
Being that this is new equipment and definitely a handful of companies' share, this does necessitate a response from an official source. This page is public and the public will inquire.
There is an issue with the threads on the humat valves. It was discovered that they will not properly thread onto certain hydrants. From what I was told, they are waiting on the manufacturer to send new adapters that fit properly.
The threads only fit 2 of the 4 brands of hydrants that are used in the city. They only thread on about 1 1/4 turn onto the problem hydrants and don't make a seal. It appears the be an issue with the way the threads were cut on the valve. Hopefully they fix the threads instead of using them to keep that pallet from blowing away.
I have also heard that from a very reliable source that, a whole lot of hose (that was ordered by someone just suspended) is at Forrest View Rescue Squad hidden because of a mistake on quantities (2 plus 2 equals 5) and yes this is the same person that told AJ Lagoe from channel 8 all of our hose was out of date..........UMMMMMM i think all the pictures of the cut up hose with dates that was behind 25 would beg to differ...... Can you day Moral Turpitude AGAIN. come on Robert I'M Begging you please start doing the right thing.......
Yes plenty of 2.5 and 1.75, est. 50,000.00 dollars worth in storage somewhere off Forest Hill blvd. However no short sections of 4.0 inch. No plans of getting any either. Add the hose with the valves at the shop, also factor in the cost of training a new F.F. and what it cost us to lose one and you have enough money for CDP.
I would love to know why the hose is being stored not in a richmond fire station but off site....Why is it hidden? How much does it cost to store the hose.... 20 fire stations, one Fire training center and one fire admin buiding, and we can fine a room for this.....REALLY?? my name is zack and I approve of this post....keep the faith...
The hose is hidden in the separate garage that is behing Forest View Rescue Squad on Forest Hill Ave. There is more new 1 3/4 and 2 1/2 that will run out of useful service date before it can be put in service. It will go to waste there. Take pictures in the hose shop and you will find brand new hose that has been sent in for repair, yet nothing can be done with it because admin cannot make a decision on what to do with it. There are no short sections of 4". No one can make a decision on who will repair hose, will training be done or will it go to a private contractor?
The theories behind the humat valves work and are proven, now the fact that they are not being utilized properly is in my mind a waste of money. Hopefully this will get sorted out sooner than later and they can go back on the rigs. Buying them was a smart purchase but was just poorly planned.
The "theory" behind the use of Quints has been proven as well - unfortunately that one doesn't exactly work well either. Show me the data that proves these valves make us more effective, give us a quicker knockdown, or have saved "x" amount of dollars....
Theory is just that...A great unproven idea that in reality has no practical basis.
Were you not paying attention during the weekend training that was happening in your battalion on the humat valves or did you mark off "sick" that day because "they" were making you "train" on a weekend??
Again, and this time I will go real slow: Show me the proof that the HUMAT valves will make any difference here (well maybe in 24's or 25's district). The Quints work as well; water still gets pumped, ladders still go up, fires still go out. Bottom line is that they work, but they really don't meet the needs of this department. I would make the same argument about the HUMAT valves, they work - they are just not the best fit for this particular department. I will also state the obvious (that has been used several times with several things here) - if it is such a great idea why isn't everybody using it? Why aren't all our pieces spec'd out with this latest and greatest piece of technology?
Stating that the "HUMAT valves work, bottom line" and they "yea they work" are arguments I would expect from the folks at 201... If they were really that awesome and that needed they wouldn't be where they are now, would they?
Oh, and did they show us exactly how much better and easier and quicker our jobs would be with the HUMAT valves at weekend training? Must have missed that part while I was smoking a cigarette and drinking my coffee while sitting on me arse on the front bumper.....
Bottom line, all that is new and shiny isn't necessarily the best; and even if it is - you must have the mindset to use it correctly. We have had the Quints for how long and how effectively are we using them?
Waste of money better spent elsewhere (which was the whole point of this posting anyways)...Prove me wrong.
Lets see, if you are at 24 or 25 then I'd assume you went to the training at the old K-Mart. At that site they were getting in around 450 GPM out of the hydrant with a single quint with 400' of LDH on the ground without a HUMANT valve. When they added the relay pumper into the equation that number improved to over 1200 GPM. The HUMAT valve didn't magically produce the 800 extra GPM, the relay pumper did. The HUMAT valve gave us the benefit of a seamless transition to relay pump. 90% of our fires we will never need to turn the valve on the HUMAT valve but for example the SB Cox fire 3 years ago could have been put out much faster if the crew didn't have to shut down hydrants to perform a replay pump.
Many Department across this county use HUMAT valves or similar products because when you need lots of water tools like that are the key to getting it fast. I'd also imagine it could be very useful in the 3000 sq ft homes in 25's district and the big box's in 24's.
So the only down side to using these valves is they are heavier then our current hydrant adapters but since all of us on the blog care so much about our craft I'd also assume we care about our physical fitness as well so an extra few pounds shouldn't matter to us.
I am not a big HUMAT fan ,however i do understand the need for them in certain area's, I do like the points that you made in educating me and others, I also like the fact that while training with Engine-11 several good ideas where brought up and evaluated by them on C-shift and passed along. Keep up the good work and ideas guys,"Thinking and exploring has never done anything but give us newer and better ways to do things" Cool Breeze
Always the optimist - it always sounds better when it comes from veteran ff's. While I don't disagree that we should always lean forward, it would be nice to lean forward into the real problems. Not just changing just because we can, but changing because we have identified a problem, evaluated the fixes, and chosen the best solution.
Didn't Fire Training say that it is important to use the 25 foot and the 50 foot LDH to hook into them? Now the Hose Chief won't let us have the shorter sections of hose. How many pieces of apparatus have the 25 or 50 foot sections anymore? Just hook the LDH to the hydrant, and put damn fire out!
The thing with the Humat is this...we don't like them because we're not very good at putting in at hydrants. In my opinion, due to the Quint concept, we really fall short on our advanced Engine company thought processes. If it involves more than forward laying and stretching a line or 2, we tend to fumble the ball sometimes. Is this a product of trying to be a master of all fireground operations? You betcha!!!
The question we need to answer with the Humat is this... "When we put in at a hydrant, do we, or don't we want to interrupt a supply line that is already charged?" Because that's all that a Humat really does. It allows us to supplement a supply line that is already charged. Do we need to put in at a hydrant at every SFD fire? No, but it has much more application than just delivering water out in 24s or 25s area. If I'm the the operator at a commercial fire downtown, you can be damn sure I'd be happy to have a Humat on my hydrant to let someone pump to me. The advantage of increased volume to the primary attack piece cannot be overstated.
The next time you go to a fire where more than 1 or 2 lines are necessary, check out how quick we are to stretch crosslays off of the 2nd apparatus that has layed supply line. Guess what that does? It takes the operator of the 2nd due away from performing important tasks like truck work. A better idea would be to break the lines off of the 2nd apparatus, and connect them to a discharge on the 1st in apparatus. This 1st apparatus could pump numerous attack lines and the ladder pipe if a working fire co. puts in at their hydrant.
The bottom line is this...our deployment model is broken...badly. The Humat is a great tool, but trying to mix it into a big Charlie Foxtrot doesn't help anyone accept the Humat with open arms.
As I see it the primary use of the HUMAT valves should be to increase the overall GPM's, correct? To the best of my knowledge we don't have a hydrant pressure or GPM related problem (if anything because of the public water system pipe relining it has gotten much better). There are supply issues at the outlying companies, but in the core things seem to be rock solid...
I understand the need for more GPM, but is it necessary on the fires we run? I don't think that we have "lost" any structure due to faulty water supply. If a 9mm will do the job just fine, why bring a bazooka? Just because you can?
I just don't see the benefit here - we don't often break our LDH and we don't have water supply/GPM issues, we are holding just fine, and then some, with what we have.
I wish we could get this kind of passion into areas where we need the help, say like back-up lines to the primary attack line. Can't tell you how many times I haven't seen that very basic fire attack lesson implemented.
At any rate, if we have a problem and we need the HUMATS then I am all for them. As I see it we don't, they cost money we don't have and utilize a finite amount of resources; we need to concentrate on the real problems that continue to plague this loyal and dedicated department.
Do some research on 4 way valves and it seems that they are either loved or hated, very little in the middle. Many departments have trashed 'em based on the fact that they over-complicated the water supply. Take a look at the device Miami Fire uses - it's on youtube. They make a good point that the devices we have now are substandard, and the device they presently use works a lot better. Just like 201 not to fully look at the issue and come up with the BEST solution.
150 years of Tradition unimpeded by Progress. I have used Humats and know how they work. These were mis-threaded and are being repaired to fit all plugs. There aren't many "Big" fires these days, but when it happens you and all others will see the benefit. The Humat Valves were not an administration idea that was shoved down anybodies throat. This idea came from young guns that want to make changes and a better department. Give it time and see that they do make a difference.
Once again proof that we are are own worst enemies.... Several have asked for something that would indicate that these things are truly a benefit and this is what we get:
- "There aren't many "Big" fires these days, but when it happens you and all others will see the benefit".
- "The HUMAT valve didn't magically produce the 800 extra GPM, the relay pumper did."
- "when you need lots of water tools like that are the key to getting it fast."
- "Humat valves work...bottom line."
- "This idea came from young guns that want to make changes and a better department."
- "Give it time and see that they do make a difference."
So somehow the undecided are supposed to climb on board because they give us more GPM and this automatically equates to a better and more efficient Department? Nobody on the "these things aren't a benefit to us" side of the house is stating that they HUMATS don't work - so stop trying to dazzle us with the fancy numbers and pump formulas - they understand the science and the method behind them. They don't see the benefit other than this is just another gadget, in a long line of gadgets, that are somehow supposed to "fix" a non-existent problem. Using your argument about the SB Cox fire is like stating the Quints were the best idea ever because of the VCU fire because we had so many elevated stream available.
And does it really make a difference where the idea came from, 201 or "young guns"? A potentially bad decision is still a potentially bad decision; is it supposed to be better because WE thought of it? The ability to try new things is important, but also having the ability to try new things and definitively say - "Yea, they work, but the don't fit our ops" is what separates us from "them".
- These things cost money which we are in short supply of; - The complicate a relatively easy process; confusion on the fireground is already a problem. - I understand that all you "young and fit"young guns may think that this is really a non-issue; but look around - are there alot of "young and fit" folks around? Much like training you really must teach to your average, or in some cases, lowest denominator. The best part of this is that age will catch up to you all...
I have yet to go to a PIA or sit around a coffee table in the morning and hear officially or unofficially that "if we had only 400 more GPM we coulda had that fire", or "we were doing just fine, but we couldn't get enough GPM and we lost it". It is more like "the apparatus just wouldn't pump", or "Firefighter x wouldn't get on the handline", or "Company x's Officer was screaming outside again", or "Battalion Q has no idea what is going on". The majority of issues we have either fall into the equipment (not appliance) and/or personnel side of the house.
I don't think, and I have yet to see anyone here prove it, that these things are going to do anything other than increase GPM - which has absolutely nothing to do with any of the real problems going on here. Just take a look around this blog if you don't believe me.
While I agree that we are gadget crazy and good at wasting money, the humat valves are nothing new. They are PROVEN. Plenty of big fire departments use them. Please travel north on 95 approximately 90 miles to the DCFD and ask them about them. They use them every day, they are not too complicated for their morons (I'm confident they have plenty just like us), and they work. They do not complicate a relatively easy process. If the humat valve confuses you, you need to punch yourself in the face for being an idiot and then go find a new line of work. This is an extremely simple piece of equipment, pay attention at the training rather than just standing there bitching. After that, PRACTICE with it. It's simple to use. If all we ever do is teach to our lowest denominator, then we will never get anywhere other than where the dumbest guy in the room is. On your last point, you are right, these will not fix any cultural or leadership issues in the department. They will however allow us to overcome friction loss without interrupting a water supply. Which is exactly what they were designed to do, advertised to do, and purchased to do. No one ever said these would flow ideas, true leaders, pride, money, etc. so I really fail to see your point. I think the original poster was speaking more to the fact that we start but never finish projects, and when things don't go as planned, management tends to cover up rather than tell us what is going on. No transparency leads to lack of us trust which creates a disenfranchised workforce.
Uhhhhh...I am thinking that the original poster was thinking that these were a waste of money, not that this was a case of starting but not finishing projects. Hence the tag line "Just Wasteful"...
Or maybe it's is just my glass half-empty way of looking at things....
Humat valves or any other hydrants vales have never been used by the RFD. All of a sudden some bright star had a pipe dream about the RFD getting humat valves. The RFD doesn't need them, had they did they would have been buying them all along.
Maybe they can be sold to a county department who uses them. The bright stars who dream up this needed to work years back when the RFD did just great with what we had.
Amazing isn't it? We haven't had to use these expensive door stops for more than 150YRS and all of a sudden, because somebody has a hard-on over them, we can't do without them. Pfftt.... How wonderful of our suits downtown to get our opinions in the field before wasting tax-payers money of these glamorised yet ineffectual pieces of equipment. Well done you tools!
It is a crying shame that many of us have to use this forum to find out the status of the HUMAT VALVES. Less damage control could have been avoided if they just sent out an e-mail explaining that they messed up. Who is accountable for waisting taxpayer's money? It always points to the Fire Chief.
They were pretty appliances that went on pretty fire trucks that are in the shop anyway. They just want to be in the shop too.
ReplyDeleteOk..I forgot...why were they taken off the trucks? Why did we buy them?....my name is zack and I am just asking.
ReplyDeleteAt $2000.00 a pop I'm counting $10,000.00 in Humat valves sitting on that pallet.
ReplyDelete"But they worked back home at my rural Vollie Deptartment"
ReplyDeleteThe price was $2500 per unit...maybe we can put them on e bay.....
ReplyDeleteI am sorry to announce that due to the economy we will not be able to provide raises, career development or help with the ever increasing health care costs. This is in no way shape or form due to mis appropriations of funds, wasteful spending, over inflated administrative salaries, top heavy administration or gross negligence in regards to the budget. Please work at being better and help find ways to save money by turning off lights when you leave the room.
ReplyDeleteBeing that this is new equipment and definitely a handful of companies' share, this does necessitate a response from an official source. This page is public and the public will inquire.
ReplyDeleteThere is an issue with the threads on the humat valves. It was discovered that they will not properly thread onto certain hydrants. From what I was told, they are waiting on the manufacturer to send new adapters that fit properly.
ReplyDeleteThe threads only fit 2 of the 4 brands of hydrants that are used in the city. They only thread on about 1 1/4 turn onto the problem hydrants and don't make a seal. It appears the be an issue with the way the threads were cut on the valve. Hopefully they fix the threads instead of using them to keep that pallet from blowing away.
ReplyDeleteI have also heard that from a very reliable source that, a whole lot of hose (that was ordered by someone just suspended) is at Forrest View Rescue Squad hidden because of a mistake on quantities (2 plus 2 equals 5) and yes this is the same person that told AJ Lagoe from channel 8 all of our hose was out of date..........UMMMMMM i think all the pictures of the cut up hose with dates that was behind 25 would beg to differ...... Can you day Moral Turpitude AGAIN. come on Robert I'M Begging you please start doing the right thing.......
ReplyDeleteYes plenty of 2.5 and 1.75, est. 50,000.00 dollars worth in storage somewhere off Forest Hill blvd. However no short sections of 4.0 inch. No plans of getting any either. Add the hose with the valves at the shop, also factor in the cost of training a new F.F. and what it cost us to lose one and you have enough money for CDP.
DeleteI would love to know why the hose is being stored not in a richmond fire station but off site....Why is it hidden? How much does it cost to store the hose.... 20 fire stations, one Fire training center and one fire admin buiding, and we can fine a room for this.....REALLY?? my name is zack and I approve of this post....keep the faith...
DeleteThe hose is hidden in the separate garage that is behing Forest View Rescue Squad on Forest Hill Ave. There is more new 1 3/4 and 2 1/2 that will run out of useful service date before it can be put in service. It will go to waste there. Take pictures in the hose shop and you will find brand new hose that has been sent in for repair, yet nothing can be done with it because admin cannot make a decision on what to do with it. There are no short sections of 4". No one can make a decision on who will repair hose, will training be done or will it go to a private contractor?
DeleteThe theories behind the humat valves work and are proven, now the fact that they are not being utilized properly is in my mind a waste of money. Hopefully this will get sorted out sooner than later and they can go back on the rigs. Buying them was a smart purchase but was just poorly planned.
ReplyDeleteThe "theory" behind the use of Quints has been proven as well - unfortunately that one doesn't exactly work well either. Show me the data that proves these valves make us more effective, give us a quicker knockdown, or have saved "x" amount of dollars....
ReplyDeleteTheory is just that...A great unproven idea that in reality has no practical basis.
Data...data....I am sure the fintch report as all the data we need.....where is that report I wonder???
ReplyDeleteWere you not paying attention during the weekend training that was happening in your battalion on the humat valves or did you mark off "sick" that day because "they" were making you "train" on a weekend??
ReplyDeleteHumat valves work...bottom line.
Yea they work, just not from a palet at the shop
ReplyDeleteAgain, and this time I will go real slow: Show me the proof that the HUMAT valves will make any difference here (well maybe in 24's or 25's district). The Quints work as well; water still gets pumped, ladders still go up, fires still go out. Bottom line is that they work, but they really don't meet the needs of this department. I would make the same argument about the HUMAT valves, they work - they are just not the best fit for this particular department. I will also state the obvious (that has been used several times with several things here) - if it is such a great idea why isn't everybody using it? Why aren't all our pieces spec'd out with this latest and greatest piece of technology?
ReplyDeleteStating that the "HUMAT valves work, bottom line" and they "yea they work" are arguments I would expect from the folks at 201... If they were really that awesome and that needed they wouldn't be where they are now, would they?
Oh, and did they show us exactly how much better and easier and quicker our jobs would be with the HUMAT valves at weekend training? Must have missed that part while I was smoking a cigarette and drinking my coffee while sitting on me arse on the front bumper.....
Bottom line, all that is new and shiny isn't necessarily the best; and even if it is - you must have the mindset to use it correctly. We have had the Quints for how long and how effectively are we using them?
Waste of money better spent elsewhere (which was the whole point of this posting anyways)...Prove me wrong.
By stating that they would only work in 25s or 24s district tells me that you actually don't understand the proper application of the Humat.
DeleteLets see, if you are at 24 or 25 then I'd assume you went to the training at the old K-Mart. At that site they were getting in around 450 GPM out of the hydrant with a single quint with 400' of LDH on the ground without a HUMANT valve. When they added the relay pumper into the equation that number improved to over 1200 GPM. The HUMAT valve didn't magically produce the 800 extra GPM, the relay pumper did. The HUMAT valve gave us the benefit of a seamless transition to relay pump. 90% of our fires we will never need to turn the valve on the HUMAT valve but for example the SB Cox fire 3 years ago could have been put out much faster if the crew didn't have to shut down hydrants to perform a replay pump.
DeleteMany Department across this county use HUMAT valves or similar products because when you need lots of water tools like that are the key to getting it fast. I'd also imagine it could be very useful in the 3000 sq ft homes in 25's district and the big box's in 24's.
So the only down side to using these valves is they are heavier then our current hydrant adapters but since all of us on the blog care so much about our craft I'd also assume we care about our physical fitness as well so an extra few pounds shouldn't matter to us.
I am not a big HUMAT fan ,however i do understand the need for them in certain area's, I do like the points that you made in educating me and others, I also like the fact that while training with Engine-11 several good ideas where brought up and evaluated by them on C-shift and passed along. Keep up the good work and ideas guys,"Thinking and exploring has never done anything but give us newer and better ways to do things"
DeleteCool Breeze
Always the optimist - it always sounds better when it comes from veteran ff's. While I don't disagree that we should always lean forward, it would be nice to lean forward into the real problems. Not just changing just because we can, but changing because we have identified a problem, evaluated the fixes, and chosen the best solution.
DeleteI am MasterRookie and I approve this post...
Didn't Fire Training say that it is important to use the 25 foot and the 50 foot LDH to hook into them? Now the Hose Chief won't let us have the shorter sections of hose. How many pieces of apparatus have the 25 or 50 foot sections anymore? Just hook the LDH to the hydrant, and put damn fire out!
ReplyDeleteThe thing with the Humat is this...we don't like them because we're not very good at putting in at hydrants. In my opinion, due to the Quint concept, we really fall short on our advanced Engine company thought processes. If it involves more than forward laying and stretching a line or 2, we tend to fumble the ball sometimes. Is this a product of trying to be a master of all fireground operations? You betcha!!!
ReplyDeleteThe question we need to answer with the Humat is this... "When we put in at a hydrant, do we, or don't we want to interrupt a supply line that is already charged?" Because that's all that a Humat really does. It allows us to supplement a supply line that is already charged. Do we need to put in at a hydrant at every SFD fire? No, but it has much more application than just delivering water out in 24s or 25s area. If I'm the the operator at a commercial fire downtown, you can be damn sure I'd be happy to have a Humat on my hydrant to let someone pump to me. The advantage of increased volume to the primary attack piece cannot be overstated.
The next time you go to a fire where more than 1 or 2 lines are necessary, check out how quick we are to stretch crosslays off of the 2nd apparatus that has layed supply line. Guess what that does? It takes the operator of the 2nd due away from performing important tasks like truck work. A better idea would be to break the lines off of the 2nd apparatus, and connect them to a discharge on the 1st in apparatus. This 1st apparatus could pump numerous attack lines and the ladder pipe if a working fire co. puts in at their hydrant.
The bottom line is this...our deployment model is broken...badly. The Humat is a great tool, but trying to mix it into a big Charlie Foxtrot doesn't help anyone accept the Humat with open arms.
As I see it the primary use of the HUMAT valves should be to increase the overall GPM's, correct? To the best of my knowledge we don't have a hydrant pressure or GPM related problem (if anything because of the public water system pipe relining it has gotten much better). There are supply issues at the outlying companies, but in the core things seem to be rock solid...
ReplyDeleteI understand the need for more GPM, but is it necessary on the fires we run? I don't think that we have "lost" any structure due to faulty water supply. If a 9mm will do the job just fine, why bring a bazooka? Just because you can?
I just don't see the benefit here - we don't often break our LDH and we don't have water supply/GPM issues, we are holding just fine, and then some, with what we have.
I wish we could get this kind of passion into areas where we need the help, say like back-up lines to the primary attack line. Can't tell you how many times I haven't seen that very basic fire attack lesson implemented.
At any rate, if we have a problem and we need the HUMATS then I am all for them. As I see it we don't, they cost money we don't have and utilize a finite amount of resources; we need to concentrate on the real problems that continue to plague this loyal and dedicated department.
Do some research on 4 way valves and it seems that they are either loved or hated, very little in the middle. Many departments have trashed 'em based on the fact that they over-complicated the water supply. Take a look at the device Miami Fire uses - it's on youtube. They make a good point that the devices we have now are substandard, and the device they presently use works a lot better. Just like 201 not to fully look at the issue and come up with the BEST solution.
150 years of Tradition unimpeded by Progress. I have used Humats and know how they work. These were mis-threaded and are being repaired to fit all plugs. There aren't many "Big" fires these days, but when it happens you and all others will see the benefit. The Humat Valves were not an administration idea that was shoved down anybodies throat. This idea came from young guns that want to make changes and a better department. Give it time and see that they do make a difference.
ReplyDeleteOnce again proof that we are are own worst enemies.... Several have asked for something that would indicate that these things are truly a benefit and this is what we get:
ReplyDelete- "There aren't many "Big" fires these days, but when it happens you and all others will see the benefit".
- "The HUMAT valve didn't magically produce the 800 extra GPM, the relay pumper did."
- "when you need lots of water tools like that are the key to getting it fast."
- "Humat valves work...bottom line."
- "This idea came from young guns that want to make changes and a better department."
- "Give it time and see that they do make a difference."
So somehow the undecided are supposed to climb on board because they give us more GPM and this automatically equates to a better and more efficient Department? Nobody on the "these things aren't a benefit to us" side of the house is stating that they HUMATS don't work - so stop trying to dazzle us with the fancy numbers and pump formulas - they understand the science and the method behind them. They don't see the benefit other than this is just another gadget, in a long line of gadgets, that are somehow supposed to "fix" a non-existent problem. Using your argument about the SB Cox fire is like stating the Quints were the best idea ever because of the VCU fire because we had so many elevated stream available.
And does it really make a difference where the idea came from, 201 or "young guns"? A potentially bad decision is still a potentially bad decision; is it supposed to be better because WE thought of it? The ability to try new things is important, but also having the ability to try new things and definitively say - "Yea, they work, but the don't fit our ops" is what separates us from "them".
- These things cost money which we are in short supply of;
- The complicate a relatively easy process; confusion on the fireground is already a problem.
- I understand that all you "young and fit"young guns may think that this is really a non-issue; but look around - are there alot of "young and fit" folks around? Much like training you really must teach to your average, or in some cases, lowest denominator. The best part of this is that age will catch up to you all...
I have yet to go to a PIA or sit around a coffee table in the morning and hear officially or unofficially that "if we had only 400 more GPM we coulda had that fire", or "we were doing just fine, but we couldn't get enough GPM and we lost it". It is more like "the apparatus just wouldn't pump", or "Firefighter x wouldn't get on the handline", or "Company x's Officer was screaming outside again", or "Battalion Q has no idea what is going on". The majority of issues we have either fall into the equipment (not appliance) and/or personnel side of the house.
I don't think, and I have yet to see anyone here prove it, that these things are going to do anything other than increase GPM - which has absolutely nothing to do with any of the real problems going on here. Just take a look around this blog if you don't believe me.
While I agree that we are gadget crazy and good at wasting money, the humat valves are nothing new. They are PROVEN. Plenty of big fire departments use them. Please travel north on 95 approximately 90 miles to the DCFD and ask them about them. They use them every day, they are not too complicated for their morons (I'm confident they have plenty just like us), and they work. They do not complicate a relatively easy process. If the humat valve confuses you, you need to punch yourself in the face for being an idiot and then go find a new line of work. This is an extremely simple piece of equipment, pay attention at the training rather than just standing there bitching. After that, PRACTICE with it. It's simple to use.
DeleteIf all we ever do is teach to our lowest denominator, then we will never get anywhere other than where the dumbest guy in the room is.
On your last point, you are right, these will not fix any cultural or leadership issues in the department. They will however allow us to overcome friction loss without interrupting a water supply. Which is exactly what they were designed to do, advertised to do, and purchased to do. No one ever said these would flow ideas, true leaders, pride, money, etc. so I really fail to see your point. I think the original poster was speaking more to the fact that we start but never finish projects, and when things don't go as planned, management tends to cover up rather than tell us what is going on. No transparency leads to lack of us trust which creates a disenfranchised workforce.
Uhhhhh...I am thinking that the original poster was thinking that these were a waste of money, not that this was a case of starting but not finishing projects. Hence the tag line "Just Wasteful"...
DeleteOr maybe it's is just my glass half-empty way of looking at things....
I am MasterRookie and I approve this post...
did you know you can't just send you an email the link is broken at the home page. it's still 804v201@gmail.com and it did not work....
ReplyDeleteBest of Luck
Rock the Knight.........
This whole thread is exactly why we fail and can not be heard by our "leaders"....
ReplyDeleteHumat valves or any other hydrants vales have never been used by the RFD. All of a sudden some bright star had a pipe dream about the RFD getting humat valves. The RFD doesn't need them, had they did they would have been buying them all along.
ReplyDeleteMaybe they can be sold to a county department who uses them. The bright stars who dream up this needed to work years back when the RFD did just great with what we had.
Amazing isn't it? We haven't had to use these expensive door stops for more than 150YRS and all of a sudden, because somebody has a hard-on over them, we can't do without them. Pfftt.... How wonderful of our suits downtown to get our opinions in the field before wasting tax-payers money of these glamorised yet ineffectual pieces of equipment. Well done you tools!
ReplyDeleteIt is a crying shame that many of us have to use this forum to find out the status of the HUMAT VALVES. Less damage control could have been avoided if they just sent out an e-mail explaining that they messed up. Who is accountable for waisting taxpayer's money? It always points to the
ReplyDeleteFire Chief.
Yaaaay! We can put them back on the apparatus and use them again. It's been 3 months, uh, I forgot how to use it.
ReplyDelete