A decision has been made that is a blatant disregard for your safety as well as the safety of our citizens. New thermal imaging cameras scheduled to be delivered with the 7 new pieces of equipment have been cancelled. A critical tool being used industry wide to assist in locating civilians as well as firefighters trapped and or lost within a building fire. Currently a company without a thermal imager is left to crawling around in complete darkness assisted only by their sense of touch and sound. For those of you not familiar with this, turn your lights off one night and see how long it takes you to get around your own bedroom. Now imagine a room you have never entered, seen the layout of, know the dimensions of and add temperatures reaching 1200 degrees or more.
Advances in technology have placed thermal imaging cameras in the hands of fire fighters around the world. These cameras allow a fire fighter to view a clear picture of a room allowing for a faster, smoother search pattern and in some cases an exact location of a downed civilian or firefighter. At current the City of Richmond does have some companies equipped with these cameras. However for years we have been asking the Chief to equip all apparatus, but have been met with excuses of budgetary constraints. Well now that we were taking a step towards providing all of our fire fighters with this invaluable piece of equipment to life safety, it has been dropped from the equipment list due to budgetary reasons. As you will see this money was needed elsewhere in the apparatus purchase.
Now, what do you think directly affects our safety and survival more, a thermal imager or a Zoll Road safety system used to track driving behaviors? Yes, after the cameras were dropped the Chief approved the allocation of funds for the Zoll system. Reason being there will now be a way to track driving habits to assist in reducing wear and tear, modify current driving behaviors and assist in providing statistics for a disciplinary system as it relates to driving. What has greater value…Brake Pads or human life?
Chief Creecy,
ReplyDeleteMy family would like to thank you for doing everything in your power to keep me safe while I am at work.
You should get accurate information or at least confirm your information before posting. The Fire Department is getting 5 thermal imagers instead of 7, not 0. This is due to the savings incurred by careful engineering of Richmond Specifications and not "Design" specifications, it also means your figures on pricing are incorrect. If you were more careful in obtaining true, correct information you would have also presented a balanced argument about our driving behaviors. In the past 5 years we have had an average of 47 collision per year, this comes to approximately 11.75 collisions per 100,000 miles. The national average is 2.75. It is costly and more dangerous to the citizens of Richmond. This is yet another reason for careful consideration of dedicated vehicle engineers. I hope these facts help in your quest for what is best for all customers, both internal and external.
ReplyDeleteHow many of these 47 collisions per year were the fire apparatus driver found to be at fault? How many of them that were at fault, would have had exactly the same outcome with the Zoll system? Example: scraping a parked car with the tail end of Q-5 (If I recall it is something like 47 feet long with a great deal of that length existing behind the rear axle), hitting a mirror on a GRTC bus on a downtown street, etc? My guess based on my experience in the department would be, VERY few if any at all. We are not totaling fire apparatus every year. We are not blowing stop lights at warp speed killing entire families. We do not flip over a rig every year like some departments. That statistic shows a very small portion of the real truth. Also, the national average fire department does NOT operate an entire fleet of quints. If everyone did, I would bet everything I own that the national average number of accidents per mile would increase. The quints are too big, too heavy, and lend themselves to increase collisions, especially in an urban environment.
ReplyDeleteFinally, you speak of dedicated vehicle engineers. Once again I look at the national average of collisions per mile. How much of the country has dedicated engineers? I agree in the fact that they would provide for a safer more consistent operation of the vehicles. Why not take the money being spent on the Zoll system and apply it toward funding a new job description that would create an engineer?
First I would like to say thank you and that I stand corrected. Part of the intent of this site is to separate fact from fiction. I would like to ask though if you would elaborate on the purchase of five Thermal Imagers and how it pertains to carefull engineering? Also why 5 vs. 7? As far as the figures posted in regards to the current apparatus replacement, please explain which ones are inaccurate? I am posting the information from which I was able to get rather clear numbers. I am unsure if the purchase of 5 or even 7 TIC’s would alter these numbers greatly but am open to any accurate information you would like to share.
ReplyDeleteNow on to the Zoll system…. One problem that I have is your data. Statistics are great, however if you are going to compare these numbers to a national average there has to be some other similarities. One would be a department operating a total quint concept. As you are aware this concept requires a greater number of larger than national average trucks on responses. This added with streets that have failed to increase in size and a department of more inexperienced drivers needs to be factored in as well. I do not disagree with you that 11.75 collisions per 100,000 miles driven is a high number, but will the Zoll really change that. Out of those collisions, how many were due to our operators error? How many were due to improper use of a spotter? At what speed was the vehicle traveling when the accident occurred? And after all of this, was the unit involved an engine/FRV or a 70,000 straight bodied Quint. Also I would like to know what percentage of these accidents involved the infamous Quint 5. The department has known about the difficulties and added expense of operating that extremely large truck out of that station since its purchase. The operators there have less than a foot margin of error when leaving quarters and one of the tightest districts in the city. Now please tell me what is the percentage of accidents from Q5 compared to the other units? At what point will 201 admit that they are wasting tax money operating the vehicle out of that station? It is ok to admit we made a mistake. One common occurrence in the RFD is the need to make change but never reevaluate the results. What percentage of those accidents resulted in property damage? When RAA struck the vehicle on the boulevard and the occupant of the other vehicle was killed, why did the Zoll unit (Failsafe) not prevent it?
I do believe there is a need for change. But the money invested in the Zoll unit could have been spent better. One option would have been a driving simulator which actually places operators in real life scenarios without the risk of causing real life damage. This will also allow for more standardized instruction, instead of relying on officers who may not even be certified to teach EVOC. Money could have been used to fund the engineer program that you mentioned. Similar to the Quints not being able to master all defined tasks, neither can firefighters. Contrary to the belief of 201, not everyone is capable of operating the trucks, nor should they be expected to. We followed in the footsteps of an organization whose only similarity is the geographical boundaries in which they operate. This is in part to the experience of some who work out of 201 and is a common occurrence throughout the industry. As you move from one organization to another you bring with you experiences. The only thing I can tell you is that I for one do not feel that the purchase of the Zoll system was justified or warranted. The money was misused and the results will be lacking.
Once more, the facts stated on this site are true to the best of the posting party’s knowledge. If you are reading the posts and have information or data to add, please do and all corrections will be posted. Thank you for your support on these matters and we look forward to hearing more from you in the future.
"And the walls keep crumbling down,and the walls keep crumbling down". Look out gang 2012 could get very interesting.
ReplyDeleteThe Breezer
Oh and one other thing....Do you mind showing us how you know 5 TIC's have been purchased. If you look at the bottom paragraph of the document above and add to the Fire Chiefs open mic statements you will see the basis for this thread.
ReplyDeleteThe idea behind engineers is not just to reduce accidents. You can also provide safe, consistent performance at the pump panel. There's probably a good percentage of our "operators" that couldn't give you a precise answer if you asked them the difference between PSI and GPM.
ReplyDeleteBy adding these pressure governors to the trucks, all you have done is dumb it down to where a 5th grader could push water out of a hose. Why aren't accurate hydraulics and good maintenance habits taught in the houses? Oh that right, none of the 3 year wonders wearing gold bars knew a damn thing before they were promoted. How the hell can they teach the new guys?
Based off the document shown it would be very intresting to see what the other vendor's would have come in with price wise if competitive bidding would have been used for the units?
ReplyDeleteQuoting above (By adding these pressure governors to the trucks, all you have done is dumb it down to where a 5th grader could push water out of a hose.) With the people being hired this has to be done. The dumbing down of the Fire Department has been going on for years. The Fire Chief says he looks for college degrees yet hires GED's.
ReplyDeleteAgain to the individual who stated that 5 thermal imagers were purchased, do you mind showing us where you got this information. I attached the document showing that the TIC's had been removed from the purchase and would be interested in seeing something that proves otherwise. The intent of this site is to provide factual information and not hear-say. I am sure that everyone would feel better knowing that the cameras have been purchased so that this conversation could be put to rest. Thank you again for your support.
ReplyDeleteFACT FROM FICTION ($$$=money wasted)
ReplyDeleteWe ordered hand trucks for the new apparatus!!! $$$$$
We ordered P.O.S. tools like 3-piece haligan bars, when PROBARS were specified. $$$$
We order fans that were too big for the compartments and had to be returned. $$$$
We ordered multiple sets of hose ramps that have never been needed, used, or otherwise. Had to be returned $$$$$$
We ordered the wrong type of fire extinguishers. Had to be returned. $$$$$$
The equipment committee (who seems to have had about as much accountability as our current tag system) forgot to order essential equipment like water keys and project wrenches but instead ordered $2000 worth of spare 2-1/2" nozzles for each apparatus.
And now I have heard that we dumped about $20K worth of tools and equipment in the stockroom with no solid plan of what/where its going. $$$$$
Good thing we didnt order any new HOLMATRO equipment for these apparatus.
The above most is more fiction than fact. As a member of the committee and having sat in numerous 3-4 hours worth of meetings for FREE on my days off the above is 95% fiction.
ReplyDelete1.No hand trucks were ordered for the new apparatus. 2 hand trucks were ordered by the Tech Rescue Team by there own grant money not city money.
2. Yes we did specify Probar halligans but Akron Halligans were purchased. Not sure why this is but apparantly there cheaper, but they are not 3 peice halligans and should be 1 peice tools.
3. The large 27 inch fans were requested due to a study done by a firefighting research group and the name has slipped my mind as I write this, BUT they were never ordered and were minimized before the order went out.
4. The hose ramps were indeed ordered and were never even asked for. YES THIS IS IN FACT A HUGE WASTE OF MONEY.
5. Not sure about the specifics of the fire extinguishers, this is a new one to me.
6. The equipment committee consisted of 3 people, only 2 of these people participated and did the best they could with very little direction or supervision. They were tasked with compiling a list of needed equipment for each type of unit the cheapest way possible. These 2 guys were not responsible for ordering the tools, that was done by someone down at 201 therefore thats how some of it got screwed up. The lists were never reviewed or edited for correctness.
7.The biggest waste of money was the ordering of gas meters for each new unit. Now one would think since we already posess gas monitors then we would be very brand specific and order what we already have but no...someone down at 201 ordered a completly different brand and at the last meeting it was discussed about sending them back.
Next time check your facts before posting. Thanks.
The final equipment list recommended by the committee (or the most active member(s)) is NOT the same as the list of equipment ordered. Things were changed at some point. This is fact.
ReplyDelete1. I personnaly saw several hand trucks that were bundled with all the other loose equipment at the AES shop in Chester. I don't know if they were added in for some other purpose, but that is a possibility.
ReplyDelete2.On the topic of Probars vs. Akron halligan bars. I was personally at the meeting with the equipment salesman to finalize equipment for the SECOND order of trucks (two more 105' quints and the "rescue engine"). The salesman showed us a list of what already had been ordered for the first order. We had no idea that anything had even been ordered yet, so needles to say this was a shock to us. He told us the Akron bar was "basically the same thing" and that it was essentially easier for AES to deal with Akron as opposed to Fire Hooks Unlimited. We told him, no thank you, we would like the Pro-Bar. He then told us, "well, you already have Akron's with the first order of trucks". So someone in admin OK'd this change without consulting the loose equipment people or anyone else on the apparatus committee.
3. 27" fans were requested based on research with regards to High Rise and "big box" incidents. They were intended to replace ALL the fans, just that several were needed throughout the city. At the time the equipment list was first created, no compartment sizes were available because the rigs didn't exist (even on paper) at that point. So initially, no PPV fans were ordered. The heavy rescues were in fact spec'd with a compartment that would fit a 27" gas PPV fan, per the specifications listed on the Tempest website. I cannot confirm if this has been changed or what the status is on the fans for those units. We did end up with 2x smoke ejectors for each quint, which was a mystery to everyone as it was not requested. My understanding is the extra smoke ejectors will be stored until the next new quints arrive and they will be used on them.
4. Hose ramps - this is basically on the money.
5. extinguishers- Again somewhere in the process I believe the size of the extinguishers was altered. The style of dry-chem was also wrong, however, the dept. used to utilize the cartridge style and has since changed to the non end user serviceable type and the change never made it to the list of equipment.
6. Agree with this as well.
7. Gas Meters - According to the salesman at AES, the list they received for the Heavy Rescues listed a Rae 4 gas meter, however the part number listed was for a Draeger unit. For a reason unclear to me, the Draeger unit was then purchased. I do not understand why no one was contacted to clear this up.
In addition, there are other serious issues regarding the loose equipment. Intake valves for the quints and engines were not ordered in the proper style or configuration. Key components of the hydraulic rescue tool system were not ordered for the heavy rescues. (Such as the electric powered Holmatro pump that is used to power the 4 pre connected hydraulic tools). I have heard conflicting reports that these items have been straightened out.
The bottom line is there are major issues with equipment. I have serious doubts if they will be resolved or we will simply be told to "deal with it" and resume business as usual in the RFD.
The bottom line is the "problems" with the equipment for the new units were not the doings of the committee or the sub-committe but of someone down at 201 who changed a bunch of orders and etc. The facts are above.....
ReplyDeleteQuestions: Were any of the multiple committee recommendations
ReplyDeletefollowed?
If no, can someone give me a solid answer as to why we have
apparatus committees?
Did the off-duty personnel that came in get paid overtime?
These changes have the Chief's Exec. Officer written all over them. She has her nose in everything she knows nothing about and Ch. Creecy is letting her run wild.
ReplyDeleteSt. Louis FD is currently buying engines and they will be buying engines in the future. This is so new that they have not even updated their own web site. Please pick up the phone and call someone to make sure we have all of our facts.
ReplyDeleteThe St. Louis Fire Department is moving away from the TQC. If you want to see pictures of the new engines that are on the street running fires or talk to someone about it come to the union meeting, I will give you the phone number to their union.
yes St Louis is buying Engines and will continue to buy Engines in the future. BUT the Hook and Ladder Companies (which where Quints) that have been around since the original TQC are going to continue and be expanded.
DeleteSo to set the record straight and so we understand
Quint Companies in St Louis do not exist and never have.
Engine or Pumper Companies - have and will continue to exist whether it is a quint or a engine
Hook and Ladders - have and will be expanded using the existing 105 and tower quints and the newer 105 quints.
This is a modified Quint concept based on the equipment and resources that are in place and can be expanded. My point of all of this is we (RFD) could also do this and adjust also, a quint does have a place in our system we just need people to have a set discipline on incidents regardless of Engine ,Truck, or truck duties. (being in a truck or called a truck does not guarantee the people are going to do truck work ).